hesitation under acceleration. need help. - Tuner-Junction

Johnlude85 · #1 (**permalink**) March 9th, 2006, 09:07 PM

ok guys. ive heard some different things about my problem here. i have a 93 prelude with an obd1 jdm h22. i have a cel for my vtec soleniod and my egr lift sensor. when i try to step on it, it bucks a little and hesitates real bad. it sounds like im goin fast but im not goin anywhere. now me question is, because i have a cel (no matter what the cel is for), does that mean the the ecu is makin the air/fuel mixture real rich so it doesent knock and ping? and my other question, it also feels like the ignition isnt advancing when im on it. a cel would do those things and make my car run poorly right? aside from me not being able to hit vtec because im gettin a code 21, then engine shouldnt feel as sluggish as it is even without vtec.

thanks in advance guys for any info.

DCxMagus · #2 (**permalink**) March 10th, 2006, 01:41 AM

certain codes will make the car run rich and certian codes wn't affect it's driving it depends on the code.

explain
If you have a code for a faulty cataylsts you car drive perfectly fine but the CEL will be on

Now if you have a code for say a primary 02 malfuction or something the car might be sent into limp mode

you said your getting a VTEC code... could your VTEC soleniod be stuck open maybe(not sure if this is even possiable)

the EGR MIGHT be causing the advanced timing but you would have to check withsome one with a Factory service manual about what the code auctually does when it is set.
but yeah to answer your question code pertainiing to major engine fuction will cuase the ecu to change it's fuel parameter while minor things like cat going out OBD2 code and the such will not.

since you have OBD1 most likely it's the code cuasing your car to stumble like that.... what happens when you reset the computer does the car run better before the codes are thrown or worse or the same

If better/worse the code is doing something if its the same then the problem if elsewhere

does it sound like your in VTEC ALL the time?

Mustangeater · #3 (**permalink**) March 10th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnlude85

ok guys. ive heard some different things about my problem here. i have a 93 prelude with an obd1 jdm h22. i have a cel for my vtec soleniod and my egr lift sensor. when i try to step on it, it bucks a little and hesitates real bad. it sounds like im goin fast but im not goin anywhere. now me question is, because i have a cel (no matter what the cel is for), does that mean the the ecu is makin the air/fuel mixture real rich so it doesent knock and ping? and my other question, it also feels like the ignition isnt advancing when im on it. a cel would do those things and make my car run poorly right? aside from me not being able to hit vtec because im gettin a code 21, then engine shouldnt feel as sluggish as it is even without vtec.

thanks in advance guys for any info.

If i were you id check the egr valve could have carbon deposits in it causing it to stick open that will deffenitly cause it to stumble and run poorly.

NismoCoupe · #4 (**permalink**) March 10th, 2006, 07:12 PM

hmmmmmmmmm i had a buddy with a bad clutch and tranny have his rpms go up and down like a 1g while pounding the gas

it was nuts. but i'd go with what the first guy said

Ghost Face Killa · #5 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2006, 06:03 PM

Fix CELs' then trouble shoot it.

Johnlude85 · #6 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCxMagus

certain codes will make the car run rich and certian codes wn't affect it's driving it depends on the code.

explain
If you have a code for a faulty cataylsts you car drive perfectly fine but the CEL will be on

Now if you have a code for say a primary 02 malfuction or something the car might be sent into limp mode

you said your getting a VTEC code... could your VTEC soleniod be stuck open maybe(not sure if this is even possiable)

the EGR MIGHT be causing the advanced timing but you would have to check withsome one with a Factory service manual about what the code auctually does when it is set.
but yeah to answer your question code pertainiing to major engine fuction will cuase the ecu to change it's fuel parameter while minor things like cat going out OBD2 code and the such will not.

since you have OBD1 most likely it's the code cuasing your car to stumble like that.... what happens when you reset the computer does the car run better before the codes are thrown or worse or the same

If better/worse the code is doing something if its the same then the problem if elsewhere

does it sound like your in VTEC ALL the time?

for the vtec soleniod, i was diagnosing with a flow chart and it told me to check the resistnace at the soleniod. if you have 14-30 ohms or something, its good. anything under that and it says to replace the soleniod. i dont remember what i had, but i know that it was lower then the factory specifications.

as for the egr valve, ive cleaned it, and even tried one that i know works (from the h23). i reset the ecu and the cel is still on, but its only on for the vtec soleniod. the egr code comes back after it warms up. but even after i reset the ecu, the car still runs like shit! i hope its because of the cel codes.

the vtec solenoid is not stuck...when you apply 12 volts to it from the battery, it clicks. i know youre not supposed to put 12 volts into it, but i needed to see if it was opening. if i remember correctly, any emissions controlling device on an engine will leave the ecu in open loop. (notice how i didnt say "limp mode", there is a difference).

Mustangeater · #7 (**permalink**) March 15th, 2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnlude85

for the vtec soleniod, i was diagnosing with a flow chart and it told me to check the resistnace at the soleniod. if you have 14-30 ohms or something, its good. anything under that and it says to replace the soleniod. i dont remember what i had, but i know that it was lower then the factory specifications.

as for the egr valve, ive cleaned it, and even tried one that i know works (from the h23). i reset the ecu and the cel is still on, but its only on for the vtec soleniod. the egr code comes back after it warms up. but even after i reset the ecu, the car still runs like shit! i hope its because of the cel codes.

the vtec solenoid is not stuck...when you apply 12 volts to it from the battery, it clicks. i know youre not supposed to put 12 volts into it, but i needed to see if it was opening. if i remember correctly, any emissions controlling device on an engine will leave the ecu in open loop. (notice how i didnt say "limp mode", there is a difference).

I dont remember for sure if that model has an egr control solenoid but if it does it could be that it doesnt have the proper amount of voltage to fully operate the egr valve. If this is the case it will throw the cel and givr an egr code, dont be fooled by the cel just because it says egr it could very well be a number of things.

Ghost Face Killa · #8 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 01:50 AM

Besides the CELS...80% of the time if a honda is hesitating under acceleration you need a new distributor. I dont mean cap and rotor I mean whole thing.

Johnlude85 · #9 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustangeater

I dont remember for sure if that model has an egr control solenoid but if it does it could be that it doesnt have the proper amount of voltage to fully operate the egr valve. If this is the case it will throw the cel and givr an egr code, dont be fooled by the cel just because it says egr it could very well be a number of things.

i know...thats the first thing i replaced. i checked everything that had to do with the egr system. in most cases, a cel says something and the problem could lie in something that has to do with the code that the cel says. i got a code 12 for the egr lift sensor. it seems like the ecu isnt seeing the voltage sent from the egr lift sensor.

DCxMagus · #10 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnlude85

for the vtec soleniod, i was diagnosing with a flow chart and it told me to check the resistnace at the soleniod. if you have 14-30 ohms or something, its good. anything under that and it says to replace the soleniod. i dont remember what i had, but i know that it was lower then the factory specifications.

as for the egr valve, ive cleaned it, and even tried one that i know works (from the h23). i reset the ecu and the cel is still on, but its only on for the vtec soleniod. the egr code comes back after it warms up. but even after i reset the ecu, the car still runs like shit! i hope its because of the cel codes.

the vtec solenoid is not stuck...when you apply 12 volts to it from the battery, it clicks. i know youre not supposed to put 12 volts into it, but i needed to see if it was opening. if i remember correctly, any emissions controlling device on an engine will leave the ecu in open loop. (notice how i didnt say "limp mode", there is a difference).

yeah open loop just means your engine is running on a preset fuel and timing map rather then gathering info from your sensors. Limp mode is wher you can barely drive the car till you get it to a dealership or a shop to fix the problem. NOt all emissions devices send the car into open loop mode. It seems like you said that the ECU is not recieving information from the EGR. If you have or know anyone with an OBD scanner I would say watch EGR voltage, and which mode the car is in.

when you start up your car it should be in open loop mode, it will gather information from all the sensors and then switch to closed loop, if it never switches over to closed loop mode then the diagnosis sytem sheck the ECU is running for the EGR valve is failing therefor keeping the car in open loop mode and throwing the code. If the switches to closed then the code lights and switches back to open then you know it's the valve itself failing AFTER the diagnotis check from the ECU.

with the steps you have already taken I would venture to guess that the ECU is failing the inital test on the EGR and then staying in open loop mode becuase of that and throwing the code.

Johnlude85 · #11 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCxMagus

yeah open loop just means your engine is running on a preset fuel and timing map rather then gathering info from your sensors. Limp mode is wher you can barely drive the car till you get it to a dealership or a shop to fix the problem. NOt all emissions devices send the car into open loop mode. It seems like you said that the ECU is not recieving information from the EGR. If you have or know anyone with an OBD scanner I would say watch EGR voltage, and which mode the car is in.

when you start up your car it should be in open loop mode, it will gather information from all the sensors and then switch to closed loop, if it never switches over to closed loop mode then the diagnosis sytem sheck the ECU is running for the EGR valve is failing therefor keeping the car in open loop mode and throwing the code. If the switches to closed then the code lights and switches back to open then you know it's the valve itself failing AFTER the diagnotis check from the ECU.

with the steps you have already taken I would venture to guess that the ECU is failing the inital test on the EGR and then staying in open loop mode becuase of that and throwing the code.

that al makes sense except that in open loop mode...the ecu doesent read anything from the sensors. it runs based off of saved information, it seems like i never achieve closed loop. and im pretty sure if there is soemthing wrong with the egr system, it WILL dump alot of fuel and wont let the ignition advance. someone correct me if im wrong here.

DCxMagus · #12 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 09:10 PM

open loop mode is overly rich becuase its a fail safe for the engine.

when the car is initally started it runs checks on all the systems it will use for closed loop operation. It seems like the egr is failing that check, this turns on the CEL for egr and the ECU opens a monitor for that singal and waits for it to operation correctly for a few starts before the code is cleared.

it seems like your egr is never passing the system check, and since you swapped out the EGR already that either the ECU is not reading the volatage correctly OR its not getting the voltage correctly.

Johnlude85 · #13 (**permalink**) March 16th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCxMagus

open loop mode is overly rich becuase its a fail safe for the engine.

when the car is initally started it runs checks on all the systems it will use for closed loop operation. It seems like the egr is failing that check, this turns on the CEL for egr and the ECU opens a monitor for that singal and waits for it to operation correctly for a few starts before the code is cleared.

it seems like your egr is never passing the system check, and since you swapped out the EGR already that either the ECU is not reading the volatage correctly OR its not getting the voltage correctly.

its gotta have something to do with the wireing. the cel is on from the time i start the car, till the time i turn it off. id doesent flash, it doesent come on and off, its steady all the time. i think when i get a chance, im going to hard wire it to the ecu. i dont feel like cuting open my harness and try to find a short in the wire.