warbly right side - Tuner-Junction

drummingpariah · #1 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2007, 10:14 PM

I've been at this one for awhile now (6 months or so), and I'm looking for some input on where to go next with my troubleshooting.

description: around 20-25mph, I start to hear a warbling noise and the car vibrates from the front-right side. At that point, it's maybe 30 cycles per minute of side-to-side-wiggle. It increases with the speed of the car, in a linear ratio (I go 10% faster, it wobbles 10% more frequently).

so far: I have replaced the wheel bearing on the front-right side (it had hand-grenaded), rotated/balanced the wheels, and replaced the passenger-side axle. I'm really picky about tire inflation, so I'm 100% certain that isn't the cause of the problem. Because I rotated the tires and the noise/wobble continues from the front-passenger-side, I'm assuming it isn't a bent rim or irregularly worn tire (the wobble would have moved to the back if that were the case).

coming up: I want to re-check my transmission oil (b18a1 engine+tranny) and make sure the axle is seated into the transmission firmly. I'm not even sure if that COULD cause this, but I'm willing to check anything at this point. If that doesn't work, I have a new set of rotors and calipers from an integra (the same integra that the motor/tranny came out of) that I'll mount up, just to make sure it isn't warped rotors.

I want to check anything that could possibly be a cause of the problem while I have the car up, so any suggestions will be taken into account and dealt with all in one day. I'll have a camera, so if anybody requests pictures of certain parts, be specific as to what you want to see and I'll put them up for troubleshooting purposes. I'm going crazy with this, and am really hoping it isn't the differential or something that's beyond what I've done before. I really just want to get this straightened out so I can get to "fun" stuff. Even if all you do is confirm or deny things I've tried or am going to try, I appreciate the feedback.

ATISTANG · #2 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2007, 10:17 PM

jack the car up till the tire is barley off the ground, then get under the tire with a pry bar and pull up while grabbing the top of the wheel and try to get some kind of movement out of it

Calicab · #3 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2007, 11:14 PM

unbalanced tire

drummingpariah · #4 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

so far: I have ... rotated/balanced the wheels...

:-/ It really isn't an imbalanced wheel.

ATISTANG,

What am I trying to accomplish with that? Trying to see if the wheel actually has wiggle?

ATISTANG · #5 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummingpariah

:-/ It really isn't an imbalanced wheel.

ATISTANG,

What am I trying to accomplish with that? Trying to see if the wheel actually has wiggle?

yeah, if the wheel has movement then the next thing to do is have someone do that to recreate that movement then crawl under and look to see what is moving that shouldn't be

jadkar · #6 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 10:47 AM

Since you've checked most of the mechanicals I would have I'll mention something else possibly overlooked. Get under the car and make sure you have nothing falpping around from the wind. You would't beleive how much noise a loose fender shield or flapping headlight harness can make as you drive.

Also, is the noise there as you brake? Maybe the caliper is dragging. Another check could be the top of the shock, make sure the top shock mount is tight. Although that probably wouldn't give you a linear noise it could make strange vibrations.

What exactly is a "warbly" nosie anyway. I think you may have just created a new word.

Calicab · #7 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 04:18 PM

is it a noise or a vibration?

i know that at higher speeds our "mud flaps" play a roll in smoothing wind flow.

when i was missing one, i felt a shaking at higher speeds( not sure if 20 mph is fast enough)

s2k owners have the same problem with the "flaps"

ATISTANG · #8 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadkar

Since you've checked most of the mechanicals I would have I'll mention something else possibly overlooked. Get under the car and make sure you have nothing falpping around from the wind. You would't beleive how much noise a loose fender shield or flapping headlight harness can make as you drive.

Also, is the noise there as you brake? Maybe the caliper is dragging. Another check could be the top of the shock, make sure the top shock mount is tight. Although that probably wouldn't give you a linear noise it could make strange vibrations.

What exactly is a "warbly" nosie anyway. I think you may have just created a new word.

i think he means kinda like the sound when a wheel bearing is going out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calicab

is it a noise or a vibration?

i know that at higher speeds our "mud flaps" play a roll in smoothing wind flow.

when i was missing one, i felt a shaking at higher speeds( not sure if 20 mph is fast enough)

s2k owners have the same problem with the "flaps"

i'm missing two mud flaps, and my wheel dances from 1-30 mph, but thats because of the shifted belt in the left tire lol

Joe-88crxHF · #9 (**permalink**) October 25th, 2007, 10:04 PM

The same thing is happening to me, but it is with both of my front wheels, I'm pretty sure it is because of my rotors, now I'm not sure if that is it with yours but its worth a shot.

If nothing else works do this

<---- I'm sure that will fix it

Lil Sol · #10 (**permalink**) October 26th, 2007, 01:36 AM

I had a similar problem in my accord turned out my strut was bent might wanna look to make sure its tight too

drummingpariah · #11 (**permalink**) October 26th, 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil Sol

I had a similar problem in my accord turned out my strut was bent might wanna look to make sure its tight too

That's a very new suggestion. I haven't even LOOKED at my suspension since I got the car.

As far as mud flaps go, I lost the last one while I was driving the car from MA to NH. I ran it over while it was still attached. That was an interesting experience, especially when I was already timid about driving the car without having "tested" it first.

I ended up getting nothing done at all, so far. As far as the "warbly" noise goes, it's a vibration, but doesn't "feel" like a vibration. I's like the vibration is wobbling. While you try to wrap your head around that, imagine how it feels trying to come up with a description like that, and finding out that it's as close as you can come.

jadkar · #12 (**permalink**) October 26th, 2007, 04:36 PM

check that top shock mount like I said and see if it's tight also you may want to see if the bushing up there is worn out.

drummingpariah · #13 (**permalink**) October 26th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadkar

check that top shock mount like I said and see if it's tight also you may want to see if the bushing up there is worn out.

Bushing looks good, top shock mount on both sides are tight.

NEW INFO Both axle nuts have wiggled loose. Apparantly the last time I put them in, I didn't notch the nuts. I'll be taking care of that as soon as I find somebody to hold the brakes down while I tighten them.

In the meantime, I decided to put my shiny new Integra rotors and calipers, with their nice Hawk pads on. I ran into a snag where the bolt-holes on the knuckles don't line up. I found a pair of knuckles for a good price on ebay, but I'm wondering if putting Integra knuckles on my CRX will throw off the suspension/drivetrain geometry. Anybody have some info on that I can squeeze out of you?

It's entirely possible that the wobble is just from bad rotors, now that I think about it. These new rotors would be a nice upgrade (2" diameter increase, plus they're slotted and partially drilled) but I'm holding off on the knuckles until I know they'll work.

As an aside, I'm headed out to San Francisco at the end of November; anybody live out there who wants to get together? So far I have one friend there, and don't know anybody else at all. Of course, that really depends on whether or not my car is running.

88crxSi · #14 (**permalink**) October 26th, 2007, 08:17 PM

This is an ongoing debate on alot of forums. From what i have read, the integra knuckles will affect suspension geometry but not necessarily in a bad way. I believe that on most lowered cars, the knuckles will actually help correct some of the negative camber. Many people say the civic EX knuckles are a better option and have less effect on geometry but most of the guys running teg knuckles give them a

.

More info:
Honda-Tech.com: Honda CRX / EF Civic: BIG Brake upgrade, Will 91 Interga Kunckles fit a 90 DX lowered 2 inches?

drummingpariah · #15 (**permalink**) October 29th, 2007, 04:31 PM

That was quite a lot of info. Thanks!

My junkyard is removing a pair of knuckles from a 91 non-abs integra that I'm picking up tomorrow morn. Wish me luck, swapping out suspension and brakes tomorrow (hopefully). If the brakes were the cause of the wobbling sound, I'll be sure to update you and spend the rest of the week driving the shit outta my car.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just the loose axle nuts, and the axles aren't firmly planted into the transmission. It's also possible that the axles are on the wrong sides (I think). One has a spacer built into it, I believe that's supposed to go on the driver's side, in the intermediary shaft. Can anyone confirm or deny that?

drummingpariah · #16 (**permalink**) November 2nd, 2007, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88crxSi

This is an ongoing debate on alot of forums. From what i have read, the integra knuckles will affect suspension geometry but not necessarily in a bad way. I believe that on most lowered cars, the knuckles will actually help correct some of the negative camber. Many people say the civic EX knuckles are a better option and have less effect on geometry but most of the guys running teg knuckles give them a

.

More info:
Honda-Tech.com: Honda CRX / EF Civic: BIG Brake upgrade, Will 91 Interga Kunckles fit a 90 DX lowered 2 inches?

I sunk my teeth into that thread, did a bunch of reading, and decided teg knuckles will be just fine for me. I then went out and bought a pair, and installed my new rotors/calipers/pads in the front. After that, I was low on brake fluid, so I bled some, saw the sludge that came out and decided to do a brake fluid change. Finished that, bled the lines again, and decided to take it out for a test run (after ensuring that all bolts and nuts, especially the axle nuts, were tight and secured).

Then, sitting there with the car idling its beautiful screwy idle (my vac lines STILL aren't right), I saw the Saturn parked sideways at the end of my driveway. I didn't get to do any test runs today.

Calicab · #17 (**permalink**) November 2nd, 2007, 01:26 PM

tragic

drummingpariah · #18 (**permalink**) November 2nd, 2007, 03:51 PM

Fixed. Could have been a whole host of reasons, but it seems like the warped-rotor/loose-axle/bad-wheel-bearing replacement solved the warbly noise. Now for that stupid vac line. Does anyone know where I can find a vac diagram for the b18a1 intake manifold so I can figure out how the routing goes, once and for all? Also, will my b16a1 (vtec) fit my b18a1 (not vtec) head?

d3f4ult · #19 (**permalink**) December 1st, 2007, 02:15 AM

throttle body to map, barometric to rear driver side port, front intake to fuel pressure regulator, large port on throttle body to charcoal canister.

I loved my integra knuckles, the geometry they changed actually allow for a tighet and more responsive turn, it was quite nice. The only thing I really had to do was toe and go as it mainly just moved the location of the tie rod end.

drummingpariah · #20 (**permalink**) December 1st, 2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3f4ult

throttle body to map, barometric to rear driver side port, front intake to fuel pressure regulator, large port on throttle body to charcoal canister.

I loved my integra knuckles, the geometry they changed actually allow for a tighet and more responsive turn, it was quite nice. The only thing I really had to do was toe and go as it mainly just moved the location of the tie rod end.

you, sir ... are the man. I've basically capped off everything but the back of the intake manifold, and left the front to fpr and tb to charcoal as it was. Is that for a b18a1 map sensor or a d16a6 map sensor? I still need to see if I have the b18a1 map lying around, I've been told it would mate up to the CRX Si wiring harness, but I had no luck the last time I tried.