++++++++EDIT++++++
Well i got my brakes fixed and in the end i practically replaced everything but realized the rear calipers needed to be switched from L to R and R to L due to bleeder postion!

96 ITR 4x114 conversion with NSX calipers
here are the pictures I promised (ill get full car shots with ITR wheels once i get them back from powder coating)
brakes when i first got them (i took the effort to brush on black caliper paint)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...DSC03740-1.jpg
I changed my mind and figure black calipers werent "sporty" enough haha so i switched to red...from spray to brush to final powder coating








(now i gotta figure out how im going to get my ebrake to work since its located on the bottom side)

heres the wheel of choice 96 itr wheels



went with ITR LCA


now im in the process of doing a passenger side wire tuck


Thanks for all the help guys! really appreciated it


hey guys i really need some help with my brakes...

Well i recently went with better brakes with the fastbrake 11 inch setup with new lines and everything. I also changed the prop valve to 4040 and MC 15/16 + the brake booster.

I am having major problems and my car has been on jacks for a week now. Well after installing everything i bench bled the MC which i hope i did right, and then i tried bleeding all the brakes but i dont get any stopping power at all???

when i bleed the brakes no bubbles appear at all, and it takes like 20 pumps of the pedal to get it to work?

any suggestions?

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HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

when you replaced the lines did you have to do any flaring?

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how about the vaccum line to the brake booster

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http://www.myspace.com/ls91crx
http://www.cr-xcentral.com

^ yea check your vaccum line...
also how are your rear brakes? check the calipers..to see if they are leaking or a bad line..just a thought

another thing..when you bleed the brakes..you didnt let the fluid completely drain out of the MC..that can cuase the MC to go bad..

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02 psm wrx gt3076r
89 crx HF..SOLD!!!

no i never had to flare any lines...used original fittings and everything...i checked and fixed all the leaks. Calipers do work because i eventually get some sort of stopping power after pressing the brakes a couple of times.

never thought about doing that vacuum test for the brake booster. is it when you press the pedal and it sinks to the floor???

and as for the master cylinder how can i check if it is bad because i swapped it out to at 15/16 which had no fluid in it so i bench bled it and everythign?

__________________
HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

Your problems sounds like the master cylinder was never completely bled out on the bench and there's still air in the lines. Follow the correct brake bleed order and be patient. I had the same issue with my 15/16 master cylinder. I had my wife pump the brakes while I bled the first brake caliper. I swear I must have been there for 20-30 minutes getting all the air out. I would have bet money that the MC was bad, I even called FastBrakes and he assured me it sounded like the MC was not bled correctly. After I finally started seeing brake fluid out of the first caliper, I completely bled it then I moved through the order. It took forever, and I did it 3 times to be certain. After words the pedal was rock hard.

I would serious say no to the booster vacuum line. The only thing the booster does is give you power assist. It has nothing to do with not having a pedal or air in the lines, etc. When your booster goes bad you have super rock hard brakes that require a strong leg, not the problem you're having.

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are your calipers on upsidown?

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i tried bench bleeding it but i probably didnt do it correctly and got some air in it before i installed it. How did you bench bleed it and prevent air to get back into it. Also the thing is i dont have any air bubbles coming out of my lines???? it is always just plain brake fluid and at times tiny bubbles???

this is how i bench bled it...of course off the car i had it mounted on my table and took a bleeding kit which includes the clear tubing and the tapered fittings...well i put a line in each outlet of the MC and used a screw driver to pump the piston with the lines returning to resevoir. trying to get the bubbles out i left the fitting and tubes in it and made my way to the car and replaced the tube fitting with the brake lines.

please help!

__________________
HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

^^

That's how I bench bled mine as well, but like you I wasn't successful. I really think you have air in you lines. You are describing the same exact thing that happened to me. The way I actually resorted to doing it (because you have now pump the brakes so many times) is I went to the first caliper and got a jug of brake fluid and ran the clear line from the caliper down to the jug of fluid. I then had my wife pump the brakes while I left the bleeder screw open. She pumped them non-stop for a very long time. There is air in lines it's just way back in the system. By keeping the line submerged in the jug of brake fluid you can keep the bleeder screw open while the brakes are pumped. This way when the pedal is pushed down the fluid is squeezed out of the clear line into the jug and when it is released the vacuum just sucks brake fluid from the jug back into the caliper (instead of air). You just have to make sure that the line always stays submerged in fluid and you don't run out of fluid in both the jug and the master cylinder. Do this about 30 pumps (give or take) on each caliper in the correct order and then see where you are at.

Other good way of checking your progress is to use a brake fluid in the master cylinder that's a different color (like super blue) this way when you are pumping the brakes you can check the color of the brake fluid at the caliper and when it turns blue you will know that you pumped all the old stuff out and now it's nothing but brand new fluid (with no air).

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sounds good to me....

im very frustrated right now because im starting to believe its a bad MC....and ive taken out the MC and BB 5 times now

well after trying and trying to bleed the system....and coming out with wrinkled hands (learned my lesson wear gloves all the time) all i would get is TINY TINY bubbles coming out which makes me believe that there is a leak somewhere? my method of bleeding was have my brother pump about 3-6 times and have him hold it then i release the bleeder screw for couple of secods and do it literally 15 times that way...got tired of seeing nothing but brake fluid with no bubbles i would ask him just to pump it while i left it open. But ill try and just leave it open and have him pump 30 times till is see bubbles BTW are the bubbles you are describing big? because the bubbles im gettting are literally tiny tiny tiny. Ive been bleeding brakes soo much that there is no more dirty fluid and everything that comes out of the bleeder is nice clear yellow Acura dot 3 brake fluid

im just resorting to going back to my original booster and 13/15 MC cause i know those work....and then im just going to order a BB and MC from brian at fastbrakes....

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HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

Oh, I thought your MC was brand new. If it's used then maybe it is busted, although I still doubt it. Yes, the bubles I had were really small, like soda carbonation. I still think you should change to super blue fluid that way you can see if the fluid ever gets "flushed" out to the calipers. I also think calling Brian and asking him about this is a good idea as well. He'll probably say the same thing I did but it's good to get another opnion.

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okay no luck again ,

i had my original MC and BB installed last night and this morning i got the chance to bleed it again. What i basically did was did the RR,FL,RL,FR pattern and had my brother pump it 3 times and then hold it then i would open the bleed screw and have him pump until bubbles would dissappear, bubbles were tiny again but in groups and it took like 60 pumps. By the time i got to the 3rd caliper all the brakes would start engaging so i got excited and my brother said the pedal got a little firmer. Well finally heading to the last caliper we bled it and there was again tiny bubbles but a lot more this time. Well sad to say pedal got softer and brakes still didnt work. We took the time to bleed about 4 times all around pumping like 100 times each caliper and still nothing? Maybe lines are put it wrong? leaks? something is wrong and its just not working for me.

When installing lines there is suppose to be two washers one on top one on bottom correct?

also could it be my rear lines are bad? im using used SS that it came with but the fronts are brand new.

Maybe air leak somewhere?

Jadkar how did your pedal feel when bleeding? does it stay the same throughout bleeding process and when does it get rock solid? cause my pedal always heads towards the floor and never gets to the point where you cant press it anymore? I think something is leaking because when i was bench bleeding the MC i plug both the holes and thats when it wouldnt budge. So im thinking somewhere there is a point where the pressure is being relieved other than the MC

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HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

what brake fluid are you using?? im using factory honda/acura fluid.

yea ill give brian a call

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HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

Get a new MC! I had mine replaced. The garage I use had to go through 2 reconditioned ones before they got a good one. Good luck.

yea...does brian at fastbrakes sell MC's??? i always try to contact him but hes never there.


well if he doesnt have any ill just buy a brand new one...

what about the brake booster? should i get a new one, reman one, or just use my existing one.

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HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

a few times when i have seen this problem, people did their own brakes and put the calipers on the wrong sides so the bleeder screws were on the bottom of the caliper, and the pedal never picked up pressure, always was slopy feeling, till i swapped sides so the bleeder screws were on the top of the calipers and actually got all the air out

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Just use your existing booster for a nice hard pedal. If you want super sensitive pedal then use an integra booster. Brian sells MCs that's where I bought mine from. He's usually in the shop until 9:00PM EST. During the day it's hard for him to get to the phone.

I bought my entire brake setup from him incuding the MC, I kept my 16 year old CRX Si booster.

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yea i got contact with brian and purchased the civic ex MC so i can use my stock brake booster. I figured i would rather stick with my stock BB because the integra one is much larger and it would eliminate my strut bar.

also he suggested a different way to bleed it "reverse bleeding" where you get one of those automotive oil pumps, the ones to grease or whatever, run the nylon line from bleed screw to the pump and fill it with brake fluid and pump the fluid into the system so the air is forced out of the MC. He said this method is used mostly for motorcycles but i purchase a bleeding pump that uses compressed air haha from a magazine i subscribed to "griots garage" i believe its the best magazine for a garage freak!

thanks for all the help guys

here is a sneak peak of what my setup consists of

one of a kind

96 JDM ITR 4x114 swap. extended stud all around and 11' inch all around with NSX 2pot calipers

__________________
HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)

nice set up

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http://www.myspace.com/ls91crx
http://www.cr-xcentral.com

alright well its not working out still

i got the new MC from brian at FASTBRAKES

i bled it an entirely different way where i used an oil pump i usually use to pump oil.

but instead i ran the nylon clear tube with it and i pumped out the oil from each caliper. it worked wonders and it sucked a lot of bubbles out!

i got happy and then i tried to hit the brakes and nothing!

well some progress because if i keep pumping it does get harder and gets to a point where it does stop and gets firm.

but once i let go it goes back to being soft and takes a few pumps before it works.

? just more air in the system?

__________________
HONDA LOVE

92 nsx (black/red)
91 crx (white)