retro's thoughts on head...and other things - build thread.

[Blake]

crome doesnt have any "components"

[mad-ass]

Originally Posted by Blake

crome doesnt have any "components"

damnit you!
you spoiled the joke you ass hole!

[Retroshark]

Originally Posted by mad-ass

Ok, everytime I look at your threads, Retro, it just makes it seem like you have not done enough searches for your project/plans or you just have no fucking idea wth is going on.

you got the basics down, that's good, but little things that were said is what makes one seem like a person whom has no idea wth they are talking about.

for instence, when you swap the suspention and drop the car more, unless you are tire tucking, you don't have to have your fenders rolled. My friend with 2004 RSX-S Trubo is sitting on Tein basic coils and his rims all around have about 3mm of space from fenders and has been for past two years. his setting is so stiff, it'll brake my back when he takes a corner at 35 mph with out touching the brakes. Thanks to LSD he has

and on the side note as C35 swap was mentioned, it's not easy gettings the right parts to put the motor in as you need different motor/transmission mounts. and C35 is from Acura MDX, 250hp one.

meh..everything you are doing to your car, I had the same plans for it long ago when I still had my accord. good luck with the build.

ok dude, eevery car is different espeically with custom wheels and ofsets. if i lower my car, the rear tires RUB and if i hit any bump they will tear the fenders appart. thats jsut the way my wheels are confgured, so therefore, i need to roll my fenders.

second of all, i do know what i want to do, and its what i wanted to do all along, but somoene told me you cant use an h22 head for a g motor, but i now know you can.


now to answer blakes question, at first, im going to tune using the VAFCII because the motor shouldnt really act too differently with the head swap, and by different i mean turbo compared to NA. i know the compression will be higher, and the airflow will be higher, but really, im just gonna have to start the engine and see what its reading. i do plan on getting a chipped ECU very shortly, but i dont know where to start with one, since there isnt really an ecu for a g-series. most likely, ill go with a prelude ecu chipped with hondata or possibly an AEM ems if i can afford it or get it cheap.

as far as i know, the vafc should be good for a little tuning but i will need to mess with the ecu. another issue is the fact i will have an auto at the time of the head swap. since i cant chip the ecu to work with an auto tranny, im going to have to tune it the best i can til i get the transmission swap.

ive been quoted 300 for an f23 tanny and nearly 950 for an h22 tranny, both with warranties on them. i may just get teh f23 cause it is cheaper, but again, ill see. i also got quoted abour 550 for a 98 h22 head, which is steep and i dont know if its with the manifolds.

basically, my ideal initial setup would consist of this:

98 h22 head
skunk2 pro series intake manifold
skunk2 pro series throttle body
OEM exaust manifold
VAFCII for tuning


so yea, well see what happens. im talking with one parts dealer about the parts i need, and they have pretty good prices for good parts, although there are definately cheaper out there, i just trust this company due to their warranties etc. the main thing is gonna be the tune. i got a lot to think about in that department.

[street_accord94]

Originally Posted by Retroshark

second of all, i do know what i want to do, and its what i wanted to do all along, but somoene told me you cant use an h22 head for a g motor, but i now know you can.


now to answer blakes question, at first, im going to tune using the VAFCII because the motor shouldnt really act too differently with the head swap, and by different i mean turbo compared to NA. i know the compression will be higher, and the airflow will be higher, but really, im just gonna have to start the engine and see what its reading. i do plan on getting a chipped ECU very shortly, but i dont know where to start with one, since there isnt really an ecu for a g-series. most likely, ill go with a prelude ecu chipped with hondata or possibly an AEM ems if i can afford it or get it cheap.

how much higher is the compression going to be?

[Retroshark]

well id guess its going to be in between what the f23 has stock and what the h22 has stock... but as i said, its a guess

[Retroshark]

UPDATE:

i got my new subs, my new amps and ran my new wires today. the subs are hooked up and the other shit (cd player, front stage speakers) are arriving tomorrow so its gonna get hooked up in the afternoon.

heres some pics. even with just the new subs, the sound is 1000 times better. these wooop those old sony xplods asses. the also bump pretty hard at medium volume, but i have a little control knob mounted under the DIN to manually raise the frequency for the one amp, so i can adjust it without messing with the head unit.

[njn63]

I'd go with maxbore for a bigger throttle body but that's just me. Way cheaper and i'm sure he could go as big as you need.

I'm guessing the reason for staying with the stock exhaust manifold is you're going turbo?

[Retroshark]

yessir

[chris_s14]

you better drive this thang when youre done...no hardparkin foo! haha

[jon ROCKS!!!!]

all i saw in this thread title was head

[chris_s14]

Originally Posted by jon ROCKS!!!!

all i saw in this thread title was head

maybe thats because u like to give head u gay

[Blake]

there are no prelude ecu's that can be chipped to run hondata. Your going to have to run a standalone or you are going to have to convert to an OBDI ecu. If you dont want to drop any of the stock components of the H head, you will need to run a p72 ecu. A p28 ecu is an option, but it doesnt look for some of the sensors like a p72 does. For instance, a p28 doesnt read for a knock sensor or EGR. It does not control the IAB's in the intake manifold. Also, your EVAP system would no longer be of any use since it doesnt have that on the circuit board.
P28 is a MUCH cheaper ecu and can be modified to operate the IAB's, but thats about it. You can also buy an auto p28 (more abundant and cheaper than manual ecu's) and convert it to a manual ecu very easily. Other things like modifying a p06 ecu to be a p28 are other options. If it comes down to it, the best place to buy a chipped p28 is through my buddy John. www.phearable.net

I think there is alot more things you need to look into before you kinda jump into something that you might not know everything about.

another thing. Why even bother buying a vafc? Thats just something you dont need to spend money on. If it comes down to needing an ecu, you can run the OBDI p13 ecu. Anyway you put it (unless you run standalone), you are going to have to convert to OBDI. The p13 ecu will get you by fairly well until it comes time to get the turbo on and get tuned.
Something else that you need to eventually invest in is a Wideband O2. This way you can monitor whats going on with the engine at all times.

i could go on forever about this tuning crap......

[jon ROCKS!!!!]

Originally Posted by chris_s14

maybe thats because u like to give head u gay

no i dizont, i like to get it, you are the catcher, i am the pitcher bitch, remember that

[xTimx]

you should invert your subs..but if you do, reverse the wiring on the subs....
also alot of people just invert one sub and leave the other one as is. looks good if one is inverted. explore your options.

[chris_s14]

Originally Posted by jon ROCKS!!!!

i am gay

thats nice

[jon ROCKS!!!!]

Originally Posted by chris_s14

so am i

[chris_s14]

Originally Posted by jon ROCKS!!!!

/whorage

[njn63]

Originally Posted by chris_s14

/whorage

seriously, control yourself guys. No reason to whore up a topic in a tech forum.

[Retroshark]

Originally Posted by Blake

there are no prelude ecu's that can be chipped to run hondata. Your going to have to run a standalone or you are going to have to convert to an OBDI ecu. If you dont want to drop any of the stock components of the H head, you will need to run a p72 ecu. A p28 ecu is an option, but it doesnt look for some of the sensors like a p72 does. For instance, a p28 doesnt read for a knock sensor or EGR. It does not control the IAB's in the intake manifold. Also, your EVAP system would no longer be of any use since it doesnt have that on the circuit board.
P28 is a MUCH cheaper ecu and can be modified to operate the IAB's, but thats about it. You can also buy an auto p28 (more abundant and cheaper than manual ecu's) and convert it to a manual ecu very easily. Other things like modifying a p06 ecu to be a p28 are other options. If it comes down to it, the best place to buy a chipped p28 is through my buddy John. www.phearable.net

I think there is alot more things you need to look into before you kinda jump into something that you might not know everything about.

another thing. Why even bother buying a vafc? Thats just something you dont need to spend money on. If it comes down to needing an ecu, you can run the OBDI p13 ecu. Anyway you put it (unless you run standalone), you are going to have to convert to OBDI. The p13 ecu will get you by fairly well until it comes time to get the turbo on and get tuned.
Something else that you need to eventually invest in is a Wideband O2. This way you can monitor whats going on with the engine at all times.

i could go on forever about this tuning crap......

thats some good info man, but im well aware of having to convert to obd1. i always thought that the auto p28 ecus's were unchipable but i guess not. i was already going to get a phearable ecu for my turbo project that i had to cancel due to money issues.

so what your saying is that a p13 will gedt me by, but im going to have to go standalone later? thats fine, i prefer standalone to chipped ecus' anyway. besides, my local tuner only tuines standalones. and if the vafc is a waste, ill ditch the idea, i just thought it would come in handy, and i do planb on getting a wideband, i just havent lookedd into which one to get.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by Retroshark

thats some good info man, but im well aware of having to convert to obd1. i always thought that the auto p28 ecus's were unchipable but i guess not. i was already going to get a phearable ecu for my turbo project that i had to cancel due to money issues.

so what your saying is that a p13 will gedt me by, but im going to have to go standalone later? thats fine, i prefer standalone to chipped ecus' anyway. besides, my local tuner only tuines standalones. and if the vafc is a waste, ill ditch the idea, i just thought it would come in handy, and i do planb on getting a wideband, i just havent lookedd into which one to get.

no no, you dont have to go standalone. I'm just saying that the p13 will get you buy until you have to go with another ecu to get a tuning program like hondata or Crome. You can do standalone, but honestly thats just alot of friggin money to have a bunch of addition options that you REALLY dont need. Hondata s300 is an awesome system.
www.hrtuning.com - This is the neptune system. If you have a tuner who uses neptune anywhere close to you, i would highly recommend doing that for two reasons:
1) Only the best tuners in the country are able to use this program which means you will get the best tune out of your motor possible and your car will run beautifully.
2) What i have read is that its the only program to run a honda better than a stock honda ecu.

It is a very expensive program, not as much as standalone, but the price paid is well worth the amount of money you will spend on it.


There are many widebands you can look into. I use the www.zeitronix.com ZT-2 wideband. I did not buy the one with display because its MUCH more expensive. The only time i need to see what my a/f is is when i am tuning and it just pops up on my laptop while i am datalogging.

www.plxdevices.com - another pretty good wideband. I'd strongly suggest getting the one that can datalog. Datalogging is just simply amazing stuff and a very nice option to have.
On most of these widebands you have the ability to log A/F, TPS, Boost, RPM, EGT, lambda and vacuum.

www.innovatemotorsports.com - The LM1 is a pretty nice wideband. My buddy uses this one and i have used it to tune a few cars. My only dislike about it is the size. The display unit is friggin huge and takes up alot of space when you have a bunch of stuff in your lap. Also makes it very hard to store and keep out of thiefs sights.

Just look around at other ones, AEM has a nice one with a autometer gauge type display. If you go with AEM standalone, thats prolly going to be your best option since its meant to go along with that program.


ok thats it.